Posts by Cold Steel

5

Morgan Freeman Decodes the Mark of the Beast

by Brokeback Watchtower in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy2cdxtwjou.

Cold Steel

666 can and has been used for everyone and everything. There's no doubt that Nero was an Antichrist, but not the Antichrist that is to attack Israel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYwtSiiAlVQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yuNYtYXrgg&t=37s

27

Understanding Armageddon

by Jayk in

so will armageddon be the biblical one we read about or is it probably going to be a government ban on christians that we will perceive as armageddon?

Cold Steel

DeeGee » Since it's all about killing humans, if God could almost wipe out everyone human being during the Flood & plans on destroying humans again at Armageddon then why not just destroy Adam & Eve before they had any children and start over again, and keep starting over if necessary, until he got the perfect couple, since it's all about killing humans?

Armageddon, as described in the Bible, isn't about killing the innocent. It comes when a man of war invades a nation of God's people to gain a land that was given them by God. When Judah received the blessing of his father, Jacob, he was told:

Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee. Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. (Gen. 49:8-10)

In other words, even though Joseph received the birthright and a greater land, Judah was to hold the scepter in the land bearing his father's name. Satan, who hates the Jews for this reason, thus drives the Beast to invading the land with the intention of killing the Jews and occupying their land -- land which was given them by God until the coming of the Messiah. The Jews held the scepter until the coming of Christ, then lost it in consequence of them killing him. Then, in the latter days, they were, also in the fulfillment of the above, gathered back into those lands and will remain until the Lord's second coming.

At the end of Armageddon, only the military forces of the Beast will be destroyed, save a sixth part of them. We are given no reason why they are allowed to escape but I think it's safe to not say it was because they were Jehovah's Witnesses.

Armageddon is about war. I suspect when the Lord comes in the clouds, the Antichrist will attack him in a final act of maniacal fury with the weapons at his disposal. Zechariah writes, "And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongues shall consume away in their mouths." (14:12)

Christ will not be the aggressor in Armageddon, but he will come as the defender of Judah. In that day, the entire nation of Israel will be converted in a single day and from then on they will be Christians. But Armageddon is not the day of Judgment. In that day, the Lord will cleanse the wicked from the earth. Those who are slain in that day will not cease to exist as the JWs teach, but will, in effect, be moved en mass from Earth to (as one theologian put it) a penalty box. The idea is to keep them from corrupting those who are left.

The JWs have never been able to show me where their view of Armageddon as a great storm to sweep the earth destroying God's enemies once and for all. But those who live good, decent lives will remain regardless of their beliefs and religious views.

27

Understanding Armageddon

by Jayk in

so will armageddon be the biblical one we read about or is it probably going to be a government ban on christians that we will perceive as armageddon?

Cold Steel

Jayk » So will Armageddon be the biblical one we read about or is it probably going to be a government ban on Christians that we will perceive as Armageddon?

What exactly do you perceive the biblical one as being?

According to most biblical scholars, Armageddon is an endtime event -- a battle, actually -- that takes place outside of Jerusalem in the Golan Heights. According to Ezekiel, Zechariah and John, it occurs when a coalition of Muslim nations combines to make war with the Jews just before the Second Coming of Christ.

Zechariah says this coalition will seek to destroy the Jews, but will be held back by the hand of God.

Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

At the head of these nations "round about" Jerusalem is a warlord called Gog, the chief prince of Magog. Ezekiel spells out that the coalition will be comprised of "Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet: Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee." Magog consists mostly of Turkey and the Soviet Republics of Kazakhstan, Kyrgystan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and the northern parts of Afghanistan. Some believe "Rosh" to be Russia because of the similarity in sound, but the word means "head of," not a location. Persia is Iran, obviously; Cush is Sudan; Put is Libya; Gomer, central Turkey, and Tonarmah the southeastern part of Turkey. All these nations today form a nice neat circle around Israel.

Gog will be the one Christians call the Antichrist. John, in Revelation 17:9-11, speaks of seven kings and seven mountains, or empires. These seven are 1) Egypt 2) Assyria 3) Babylonian 4) Medes and Persians 5) Greek 6) Rome and 7) Turkish Caliphate.

And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Of these seven, John is writing in the times of the sixth king, which is ROME. Five of the kings had fallen, he's writing in the time of the sixth king and he's telling us to watch the kingdom that will follow Rome. The "other is not yet come," he wrote, and when it comes, he said, watch it, for "he must continue a short space." After the Roman Empire fell, the Muslim Caliphate established itself almost seamlessly, and it continued until 1922. Now watch what John says about the identity of the Beast: "five are fallen, and [ROME] is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And here it is: "And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. The Turkish Caliphate is the one that was, and is not, even he is the eighth. Thus, the seven empires come and go. John says that the seventh will cease to be "after a short space," but "even he is the eighth." This eighth will be the Antichrist.

John also saw a beast rise out of the sea with seven heads and ten horns. "And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast." The seven heads are the seven empires, and one of the heads was wounded unto death. The ten horns are rulers. Since Gog will be the chief prince or "head" of Magog, we don't yet know who the ten kings are, but the nations spoken of by Ezekiel are all nations, the territory of which was controlled by the Caliphate. Thus, the Caliphate was, was not, and is again. Or at least it will be, and this is a good way of testing prophecy. If ISIS and other Islamic fundamentalists want to revive the Turkish Caliphate to its former days of glory, and are able, it will be a major evidence that the JW Governing Body is wrong in its views of Armageddon!

Okay, we have Gog and his armies moving on Jerusalem. See Ezekiel 38-39. God intervenes and helps the Jews fend off their enemies.

Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee. Thus saith the Lord God; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought: And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates, to take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land. (Ezekiel 38:9-12)

After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them. Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee. (38:8-9)

Note the prophetic precision in which the Lord speaks of it being in the "latter times" (latter days). It will be a time when His people had had been gathered out of many people and brought forth out of the nations. This wasn't true in Daniel's time, or in John's day. The only time in history when the Jews have been gathered out of many nations and peoples is in our day...today. Thus, the fulfillment of this prophecy is set for our day.

In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them.
And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. (Zechariah 12:8-11)

The Jews, to escape their enemies, finally rush to the chasm created when the Mount of Olives split. There they see their Messiah descend into their midst. But then they see the wounds in his hands and it suddenly occurs to them who their Messiah is. When this happens, the entire nation goes into mourning because he will identify himself. While this is happening, Gog attempts a direct assault on the Jewish Messiah and He responds with a firestorm that destroys all but a sixth part of Gog's forces. From that time forth, both the Jews and the heathen who survive will know the Lord as One. Those in the nations surrounding Israel who do not go up to Jerusalem to join in the Feast of the Tabernacles will be punished with famine and plague until they do.

And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one. All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses. And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited. (Zechariah 14:9-11)

After the great battle of Armageddon, the nations surrounding Jerusalem will be required to make reparations. They will be required to make peace with the Jews and put an end to their generations of seething hatred. Today in Islamic literature, from the Qur'an to the Hadiths and the traditions, the Muslims have been building up to expect a war with the Jews. "The wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance" and it will be gathered to build back up the holy city of David.

This is just a portion of the story of Armageddon, but it's quite different that the non-biblical Armageddon that the Jehovah's Witnesses are taught is coming. It's not even remotely the same.

25

Can you be disfellowshiped for reading other religious materials?

by paradisebeauty in

i am having a conversation with a jw and they say you can not be disfellowshiped for this.

is this true?

i thought you can be disfellowshiped for this.

Cold Steel

Make sure that when they drop by, that the religious books you're reading are mixed in with several gun magazines. Tell them you just don't know what you'd do if you got called before a group of elders -- that your wife is afraid you'd do something stupid...rash.

7

Who did new testament writers think Jesus was ?

by Steel in

i have been reading this book called " the two powers in heaven " .. the readers digest version is basically there was a first century belief of kind of a dual god system in the old testament.

god is invisible and yet he appears at the " word of the lord " or " the angel of the lord ".

basically any time god was visible and dealing with humans in a touchable , see able manner , it was though to be christ.

Cold Steel

None of the New Testament writers had ever met the supposed Jesus, yet all save one of them gave their lives testifying of him. Very few able scholars doubt that Jesus existed. Religions like Christianity don't just pop up and spread over mythical figures. Not only did Jesus die for the faith, and the apostles (except John), but look at all the Christians that Rome tortured and killed from the first century on. People don't give their lives without conviction, nor do the scholars record histories or the theologians record doctrines. Christianity held together very well, but lost its cohesion after the apostles died and revelation ceased.

Denying the existence of Jesus is wishful thinking on the parts of today's atheists. Not satisfied with denying God, they now seek to deny Christ, his existence and teachings, but it's an intellectual form of whistling past the graveyard.

The Jews had varying expectations of the Messiah, including a dual messianic expectation, one of Joseph and one of Judah. One author I like is Margaret Barker, who has written and lectured extensively on the messianic expectations of early Judaism, the identity of YHWH as a son of God (not the Father, as the JWs think).

Believing Jesus didn't exist is far more an act of faith than believing he did exist. One may not like him, and not like his teachings, but they're fighting an uphill battle in denying his existence.

7

JW view of apostates is of human origin

by venus in

god doesn’t take action against a person who has long history of faithfulness when he fails for the first time.

for example, satan is freely permitted to move in heaven and on earth even after many many sins he keeps on practicing.

israel as a nation was not rejected at the first instance of their disobedience.

Cold Steel

Smiddy » How does that compare with Adam & Eve? They were immediately sentenced to a life of misery outside of God's favour and so were their offspring to what we see today 6,000 years later of misery, disease, indignities, suffering and death.

Yes, unless that God's intention all along. The Eastern Orthodox and a few other religions believe the Fall was a necessary part of man's journey from mortality to the Divine. In other words, Adam and Eve were not capable, in their immortal states prior to the Fall, of inheriting the Divine Nature. Only by falling and being redeemed by someone with that nature could they be elevated to that potential. As Father Kallistos Ware put it in THE ORTHODOX WAY, “God became man, so that man could become God," and “God became as we are, so as to make us as He is."

When man was first placed in the Garden, they did not have this potential. Had God not engineered the Fall, man would have remained in a stagnant state worlds without end.

It had all the trappings of a setup. Two beings, devoid of guile in an enclosed area with the fruit of knowledge of good and evil and a malignant being out to destroy them. They were set up. And they could not be condemned because they knew not good or evil when they partook.

In short, they were supposed to fall. Not for their harm, but for their good. (See 1 John 3:2)

45

So, is God a rapist!?

by stuckinarut2 in

ok, i apologise in advance if this seems irreverent to those who believe in god.. but, the bible says that god (jehovah) impregnated mary.

without her consent.

so that would seem to be rape...right?.

Cold Steel

Anony Mous » I'm sure "being all educated" you have read the account. The account according to Luke goes as such....

Many stories in the Bible and elsewhere leave out details. God doesn't work through force, nor will he compel man in matters of salvation. And he honors man's free agency (thus the difference between Christianity and Islam, which compels man in all things).

Like the prophets, it's safe to assume that Mary was preordained to be the Mother of the Lord. (See Jeremiah 1:5) To think she would have to be forced into this assignment is pushing the bounds. Some scholars have even speculated that the reason so many women in Mary's day were named Mary was because of a possible messianic tradition that that would be the name of the Messiah's mother.

According to traditions that are extant, the Messiah would appear when a large Gentile military force would attack and destroy much of Jerusalem, the city being saved at the last moment. In Jesus' day, Rome was regarded as being a great contender for that role. In the latter times, this battle is known as Armageddon. Any Jewish mother would have been honored to have been the mother of the Deliverer.

7

JW view of apostates is of human origin

by venus in

god doesn’t take action against a person who has long history of faithfulness when he fails for the first time.

for example, satan is freely permitted to move in heaven and on earth even after many many sins he keeps on practicing.

israel as a nation was not rejected at the first instance of their disobedience.

Cold Steel

Venus » Saul did not extend his waiting (waited for seven days) for Samuel indefinitely, but went ahead and made the sacrifice himself. This good-intentioned, extremely unselfish act of Saul was judged as disobedient by Samuel and declared his judgment: “Jehovah will choose another person to be king over Israel.” (1 Samuel 13:14) What else is needed to turn a good person into bad?

With Saul, this was a part of his arrogance. He assumed because he was king of Israel that he also had the priestly authority to offer sacrifices. It was for his arrogance and his tendency to second guess the Lord. Just as he did a short time later in sparing Agag and the livestock of the Amalekites, which showed he didn't learn a thing from his earlier disobedience.

Just as when Aaron's sons thought to use "strange fire" in their offerings, it was a contempt for the word of God. Based on the language used in 1 Samuel 13, we know that Saul did not obey the clear commandments of the Lord. Nowhere had Saul been ordained to the office of priest, nor was he of the necessary tribe to receive that office. This is one reason the Protestant reformers denied the priesthood authority of the Roman Catholic Church. Constantine may have been the emperor of Rome and the most powerful ruling authority of his time, but he lacked the authority of a single elder or bishop. It's also the reason the Pope excommunicated the bishops and King Henry VIII because he, being king, did not hold ecclesiastical authority. (Yes, it was an irony, but such is history.)

In short, there was no reason to think that Saul had any right, despite his intentions, to proceed with the sacrifice. If he grew tired of waiting for Samuel, why didn't he command his own Levitical priests to offer the sacrifices? Whatever made him think that he, lacking the priesthood, could offer them up? I suspect the priests followed Samuel's orders, not Saul's, but remember Uzzah, who reached out to steady the Ark. They had not secured the Ark as the Lord had required and when the oxen stumbled, Uzzah, lacking authority, attempted to steady it.

Saul knew these stories as well as we do and he knew it was a grievous sin to take authority that had not been given him. This is why Samuel became furious on both this occasion and the one with Agag. In our day we're trained to look at motivation when deciding what's right and wrong. But in Samuel's day, they took things like this far more seriously.

Having said that, the Governing Body have no authority, either. They are part of a manmade church with manmade policies that belie the merciful nature of God. Had Saul acted in good faith and not known the seriousness of what he'd done, the Lord would have been unjustified in his actions. The practice of shunning and disciplining church members is a policy that they are unauthorized to make.

45

So, is God a rapist!?

by stuckinarut2 in

ok, i apologise in advance if this seems irreverent to those who believe in god.. but, the bible says that god (jehovah) impregnated mary.

without her consent.

so that would seem to be rape...right?.

Cold Steel

Actually, Jesus wasn't born on December 25. That was taken from the Roman Feast of Saturn. Also, the Bible never specifically prophesies that the Messiah would be born of a virgin; however, the New Testament strongly suggests she was a virgin and that she consented to being the mother.

12

Facing My Mortality And Becoming A Donor

by pale.emperor in

this thread is quite morbid so i apologize in advance.. a few days ago i was having a conversation with my girlfriend in which she mentioned in passing that she's signed up to donate her organs after her death.

i was quite surprised because she mentioned it like it was no big deal.

i asked her which organs.

Cold Steel

Think of all the people who die and are buried, and organs that could have gone to benefit the lives of others end up rotting in the ground. My wife and I are both donors, and it's on our driver's licenses. It's important that you carry a card or other indicator so your organs can be expeditiously secured and stored. Anything else can be cremated, put in a jar and disposed of.

A woman friend of mine, an evangelical, told me, "Isn't being cremated show a lack of faith in the resurrection?"

"No," I replied, "actually it shows even greater faith in the resurrection. If God can put me back together after all that, then I'll be putting Him to the test."

It's regrettable that religious dogma often results in the waste of such organs. Does the "Truth" allow for non-blood donations to be made at the time of death? Having worked at the National Institutes of Health, I've gained a sense of my own mortality. I've also seen the benefits of bone marrow transplants in people whose lives were saved by the process. I've often wondered what the JW position is on such transplants. Donors have told me that the process is completely manageable as long as the donor takes it easy after the procedure. The one man I met who had a bad time afterwards felt so good he did some yard work. Two days later he was hospitalized, but he was so happy to have saved a life he told me he would do it again in a heartbeat. I've been on the list for years and haven't been compatible with anyone, but I know the value of being a donor. Parents of a child who needs a transplant, spouses and other family members -- the benefits of this procedure are enormous and highly gratifying. To pass a sentence of death on people because of someone's gross (mis)-interpretation of an Old Testament passage is outrageous.

Whether you give your body to science or become a bone marrow donor and/or donate blood on a regular basis, your act can save lives. Men often produce too much iron and this can cause heart and other problems. By giving blood on a regular basis, you can reduce the iron in your body by reducing the amount of blood. It benefits others and it benefits you. How can it possibly be bad?